🎙️ Ep. 123: Former Federal Prosecutor Reveals How AI Levels the Playing Field in Criminal Defense 🎙️⚖️🤖

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My next guest is Lance Kennedy. Lance is a former federal prosecutor who now operates a tech forward criminal defense practice in Texas. He combines his prosecutorial experience with cutting edge AI and automation tools to compete against well-resourced government teams, helping criminal defense attorneys leverage technology for data analytics, digital forensics, and case management across both federal and state courts.

Join Lance Kennedy and me as we discuss the following three questions and more! 🎯

  1. What are the top three ways criminal defense attorneys can leverage technology to level the playing field against well-resourced prosecution teams? And how has your prosecutorial experience informed your approach to implementing these tools?

  2. With your experience handling both federal cases and state Texas matters, what are the top three technological tools or approaches that criminal defense attorneys should prioritize differently when managing federal cases versus state cases? And how can technology help attorneys navigate the distinct procedural and evidentiary challenges of each system?

  3. What are the top three ethical and practical considerations criminal defense attorneys must address when implementing AI tools in their practice? And how can lawyers ensure they maintain the 'human in the loop' while maximizing AI's benefits for client representation?

In our conversation, we cover the following ⏱️

00:00:00 - Introduction

00:01:00 - Guest's Current Tech Setup

00:05:00 - Top Three Ways Criminal Defense Attorneys Can Leverage Technology

00:08:00 - Federal vs State Technology Tools and Approaches

00:10:00 - Top Three Tech Tools Better Than Government Systems

00:13:00 - Data Privacy and PII Protection in AI Tools

00:14:00 - Ethical and Practical Considerations for AI Implementation

00:16:00 - Where to Find Lance Kennedy

RESOURCES 📚

Connect with Lance Kennedy 🤝

Mentioned in the Episode 💡

Hardware Mentioned in the Conversation 💻

Software & Cloud Services Mentioned in the Conversation ☁️

TRANSCRIPT

Introduction

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Episode 123 former federal prosecutor reveals how AI levels the playing field in criminal defense.

My next guest is Lance Kennedy. Lance is a former federal prosecutor who now operates a tech forward criminal defense practice in Texas. He combines his prosecutorial experience with cutting edge AI and automation tools to compete against well-resourced government teams, helping criminal defense attorneys leverage technology for data analytics, digital forensics, and case management across both federal and state courts.

All this and more, enjoy.

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Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Have you been enjoying the Tech Savvy lawyer.page podcast? Consider giving us a five star review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast feeds.

Lance, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate you being here. [00:01:00] And to get things started, please tell us what your current tech setup is.

Our Guest's Current Tech Setup!

Lance Kennedy: Well, you know, it really has evolved since I started my practice, but currently I do have, a MacBook Pro that I use kind of as my normative computer.

I do use Mac almost exclusively along with a dual sim. iPhone 17 Pro Max. Mm-hmm. Which has two different lines. One for business, one for personal use, so it can kind of consolidate it into one. And then on my actual desk, which I actually use a, standing desk. Really, it makes it nice to be able to adjust along with a gaming chair.

'cause I think that was actually the most comfortable, best. Chair that Define was actually a gaming chair, and its Secret Lab is the company, so Yep. You're looking for a good one. That's, my recommendation. And then of course, extended monitors, because we use so many different systems, so that's more of the hardware setup.

In terms of software though, we, I use of course, Gmail interface for our firm along with our website, which is managed by Scorpion, one of , the ad companies. And then other software that we utilize are matics for our [00:02:00] CRM and my case for our client management portal, along with some other intake software that we utilize.

So I'm gonna ask, which MacBook Pro do you have? That's a good question. So I bought it a little bit, but it's the, you know, it has , the M two chip in it. Okay. 16 gig MacBook Air. So I've had it for about a year and a half and Excellent.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Really

Lance Kennedy: well for me.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Yep. And of course you have a Apple store.

Business account, right? I do. Yeah, of course. Excellent. And what about your monitors? Do you have a particular brand?

Lance Kennedy: Well, the monitors I currently am using , are, curved Samsung monitors. Mm-hmm. They, and then I have a articulating arm that I have them on just so I can kind of maneuver them.

I still use my, my laptop for most things with the laptop screen, and then use the extended monitors to kind of host documents or platforms that I'm utilizing.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: For your curve monitors, do you have more than one on your desk? I have two. And so the curve monitor, my understanding of the concept is to kind of keep your eyes on the screen so that you don't lose anything.

You [00:03:00] know, moving from left to right, you know, I've got a three monitor set up, main one and two FLA flanking left and right. They say that having a curve monitor is better because you need, again, you keeping your eyes on the screen. Do you find to have any conflict with that, given that you have two curved monitors?

Lance Kennedy: I don't find any real issue with it. I mean, they're not the most extreme, you know, curved monitors. Some of them are, have a, I dunno if it's concave or convex, but point is, is that they do have a little bit more of an angle to them. Right. These are almost flat, but they do have a slight curve and I really haven't found an issue with, it, it just, it works for me and I kind of have them set up on opposite sides of my deck and

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: that's all that matters.

Your iPhone 17 pro. Is it a pro promax or pro promax? And did you get the orange? I did get

Lance Kennedy: the orange. How do you like that? It's all right, but I have a OtterBox, one of the defender. Mm-hmm. OtterBox cases. And I know some people think the Promax versions are a little large, and then I add a, an additional right kind of bulk to it.

But I figured if I'm gonna have that expensive of a piece of hardware, [00:04:00] I'm gonna get the most rugged. Protective system that I could get, which is the defender.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: I do the same thing, and I agree with you. I've got some sort of, I have a knockoff case for my iPhone, PROMAX 17, but the nice thing about it is it has a little kickstand built.

It's really nice. So that comes in handy, like when you're, elsewhere, you wanna just prop it up, whether you're in the kitchen, dining room table or at a Starbucks and you only have your phone with you. That's been a little trick that I found out from my last anchor case that I had for my 16.

I'm on the annuals recycle program with Apple, so I get the new phone every year. Well let's get into the questions.

Q?#1:  What are the top three ways criminal defense attorneys can leverage technology to level the playing field against well-resourced prosecution teams?And how has our guest's prosecutorial experience informed your approach to implementing these tools?

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Question number one. Lance as a former federal prosecutor who now runs a tech forward criminal defense practice. What are the top three ways criminal defense attorneys can leverage technology to level the playing field against well-resourced prosecution teams?

And how has your prosecutorial experience informed your approach to implementing

Lance Kennedy: these tools? Yeah, those are great questions. And so what I would say on the outset, as you know, particularly with the new AI revolution, I [00:05:00] think we're at the onset of it. It still has, you know, a lot to go. We'll see where it takes us.

But really with these technological changes, what I see in at least our market, and I think it's probably in any practice area, it's becoming. More key is you're g you're really gonna have firms that take advantage of the full weight of technology available to them. And those that don't, and the ones that don't, are just gonna be left behind because they're not able, they're not gonna be able to leverage their time and resources in the same way.

Mm-hmm. And it goes to, you know, the different ways we're utilizing technology, I mean, the first would be data analytics and, and case management with all the AI tools available. You know, you have to, of course, make sure you're following bar rules and not sharing PII in places. Right. Utilizing AI either on your own server or running it without sharing data has been a game changer because what you can do is you can organize discovery and spotting consistencies or quickly cross-reference evidence and you know, which is really critical when you're going against prosecution teams with more manpower.

Whenever you, you know, you're up against the federal government or a state government, [00:06:00] they have almost unlimited resources available to them, investigators, analysts, experts and and whatnot. And so having that ability to quickly analyze data and spotting consistencies is key. The next would be digital forensic tools.

You know, by employing such like forensic software or utilizing experts that have access to forensic software, like cell tower data, digital communication or, or different types of video analysis, we've been able to really. Bolster our client's defense. And part of that is my prosecutorial background, particularly with the Department of Justice, , taught me how the government's gonna build a case against you.

Mm-hmm. So we want to utilize the same tools to, to be able to dismantle a case, or at least provide the best defense to our clients. And in our area, of course, is criminal defense. Most of this is gonna be done though through experts that have, you know, either DEC decryption tools or other analytic tools.

And, and starting to leverage again, the same forensic opportunities that the, the state or government has. And then finally, I kind of touched on this with data analytics is really AI and automation. This is, you [00:07:00] know, things such as automated receptionist, document review, legal research. All of these have, we've been able to successfully offload to AI platforms.

And that does free up bandwidth for our team to focus on, strategy rather than just paperwork. So those would be the three ways, categories of the ways we're utilizing technology.

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Q?#2: What are the top three technological tools or approaches that criminal defense attorneys should prioritize differently when managing federal cases versus state cases? And how can technology help attorneys navigate the distinct procedural and evidentiary challenges of each system? system. .

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: So let's move on to question number two. With your experience handling both federal cases and state and Texas state matters, what are the top three technological tools or approaches that criminal defense attorneys should prioritize differently when managing federal cases versus state cases? And how can technology help attorneys navigate the distinct procedural and evidentiary challenges of each

Lance Kennedy: system. Great question. So I'll take these kind of separately because federal and state work are, are somewhat distinct, albeit both [00:08:00] kind of deal with the same subject matter, federal cases and, and the federal system. Of course, you have a, you have a unified online platform, ECF case, sir.

And then of course you have box, which is the, the typical way that evidence is shared with you from, you know, the agency's DOJ, the prosecutor to you as the attorney. And so when it comes to utilizing technology with federal cases, particularly those that are, you know, again, very, have a very large amount of discovery such as white collar cases, wire fraud, things of that nature.

We utilize and leverage, for instance, like co-counsel with Westlaw to be able to, to create trial books and really look at the discovery and help us manage our, the vast amount of discovery. I mean, you know, a small white collar case could have 10, 15,000. Exhibits or files, they're white collar cases that go into hundreds of thousands, if not millions of documents.

So, mm-hmm. You know, quickly being able to utilize AI rather than have to have, you know, an associate comb through those and really look for things has, is a, is definitely something that you should leverage if you're [00:09:00] not doing that already. In terms of, you know, state practice things, you know, 'cause criminal practices and state work, you're dealing with a lot of volume of clients such as, UIs, assaults, drugs, right.

And the like. So utilizing AI and, and other automated technologies for rapid response call tracking, text automation, even like case management software mm-hmm. You know, are very helpful. And that's just because state cases can move pretty quickly. Or involve high client volume. And so you want to be able to utilize automation as much as possible.

So that's what we do as well. And then finally, the technol technological advantage you get by utilizing all these different platforms. You know, like for instance, using dashboards to track procedural deadlines or evidentiary issues really enables you to, to stop things from slipping through the cracks.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: So my question to you, going back to the first, and, course the second question. As you mentioned that you wanna be using the same platforms as the government does, whether it's state or federal. Have you found, say, maybe three [00:10:00] pieces of tech or software. That you find to be better than what the state or federal government uses.

Lance Kennedy: I mean, you don't have access to their internal systems. Right. And then mm-hmm. In terms of like state, the state, and I'm speaking of particularly the federal system that, the state prosecution, depending on the county, can be fairly antiquated. You know, because we work throughout Texas. My firm Lance Kennedy law, we work through all the major metros of the Texas Triangle, but also rural counties with five, 6,000 people. Right? And so you see a wide discrepancy between tools that they're using. And so what I would say is you may have access, for instance, to like Westlaw, which they're gonna be utilizing. Mm-hmm. In preparation as well. But I would venture to say that if you're a tech savvy defense attorney, like in my position, you're gonna have access to more platforms and be willing to use , more platforms, right.

In the state or feds. And that's just because. You know, they're not gonna go outta their way to purchase a software that's not being provided for them. Right. Whereas, if you're running your own business, you can select [00:11:00] the best software possible to help your clients. Are you willing to share your top three?

Yeah, I would say, I mean, the easiest for me is chat. GPTI do have a pro account that would be top of the list. There's just so many features available with the new agents that they've rolled out. Deep research functionality, copy editing, replying, you know, for instance, making sure that whatever communication is compliant with whatever rules of professional conduct or Texas Code of Criminal procedure, you can really utilize, you know, AI in that capacity to shore up your communication, even if it's merely looking at, what you're typing , or research question or the like.

The next one would be Westlaw, the AI enabled Westlaw with co-counsel. Just because it makes, you know, when I, when I went into law school, we were still learning how to, , and granted it was still, it was antiquated at this point, but they were still making us learn how to pull cases from the volumes in the library.

Right. I've never done that actually, in practice. It was a waste of time, but then of course, we were using Westlaw, but you had to use some of , the connectors and you had to [00:12:00] be really adept at the coding of how you phrased a question. Now, that's not even , a question. You can literally type in any search query and sort it by case, like, how does XJ judge handle this matter?

And it leverages the entire Westlaw database. And then finally, I would say a really easy one to utilize is Grammarly. And so , my team is Grammarly integrated in all of our platforms that enables us to. Make sure that our copy is clear and professional and gets the right tone. And when you're dealing with criminal clients, many times you're gonna get a client screed, you can't even understand it's gonna be, you know, run on sentences , and stream of consciousness.

So to be able to quickly utilize AI to interpret it and then respond with a proper tone , is incredible as well. So I'd say those were my top three.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Excellent. Excellent. I appreciate you sharing that, but I'm gonna focus on one, which is gonna bleed into our third question. Talked about chat, GPT Pro. Now, is the information that you put into that system at that tier, is that still protected or are you [00:13:00] worried get to be wary of your PII?

Lance Kennedy: Yeah, that, that's a, that's kind of a real open question right now. So most of the LMS and other platforms are gonna enable you to turn off data sharing. Mm-hmm. And so that should, for, for all intents and purposes, protect your data. But, but really ensure, you know, you're doing what is compliant with your bar.

The next thing is you can actually host your own, you know, server with mm-hmm. AI on it and just kind of keep it in a closed ecosystem. So that's the safer method. But I think probably both of them meet the criter and confidentiality. The issue is you just don't want PII getting onto the internet some way, somehow inadvertently, and I think as long as it's not being shared.

That should prevent that from ever occurring. But again, you know, that's just my opinion and you have to kind of figure it out. I think the issue , is that, you know, state bars are, you know, and I would say advertising committees, there are government workers or individuals mm-hmm. That never run a business. And there's Right, they know impetus for them to move quickly on these types of issues or be sensible or reasonable. And so. [00:14:00] I would just say be a smart practitioner and don't put yourself in any type of harm's way. And for our last question,

Q?#3: What are the top three ethical and practical considerations criminal defense attorneys must address when implementing AI tools in their practice? And how can lawyers ensure they maintain the quote unquote human in the loop while maximizing AI's benefits for client representation?

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: as someone who has worked on both sides of the courtroom and now integrates AI into your defense strategies, what are the top three ethical and practical considerations criminal defense attorneys must address when implementing AI tools in their practice?

And how can lawyers ensure they maintain the quote unquote human in the loop while maximizing AI's benefits for client representation ?

Lance Kennedy: You know, I think this kind of goes to the use of any technology is. When it comes to replacing repetitive tasks, things that really are, I would say, tasks that don't take a true technician or someone with a mm-hmm.

Skill set to do. Those are the ones that need and should be automated and can be automated.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Mm-hmm.

Lance Kennedy: As quickly, even things like receptionist. Mm-hmm. You have an AI receptionist. So the point is, is that there are things that generally do have a human like component or interact. Mm-hmm. Can be easily replaced with ai.

However, you know, depending on your competency and where you're [00:15:00] practicing, what type of law. For instance, you know, we're never gonna replace attorneys in the courtroom, at least right. For the way foreseeable future things like hearings or visiting a client in jail. Or making phone calls to family members to, you know, assure them everything's being done.

Those are the tasks that of course we are still gonna have to have a human touch. The more we automate, the more we leverage technology, the more we're utilizing AI to be able to help us do things like research or in something that took us. Five hours we can now do in 30 minutes. Right. We're gonna leverage because that frees up my attorneys to do the things that they're really paid to do, which is, you know, win cases, resolve them favorably for our clients and keep them in the loop.

And, and that's where, technology really is enabling us to

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: succeed.

Have you come across any ethical pitfalls in dealing with ai? Maybe not necessarily with yourself, but you've seen with other colleagues?

Lance Kennedy: No. I mean, what, you know, the question , is like, what would be the ethical grounds here?

It's the, the same rules apply whether guides writing copy for you from mm-hmm. Or [00:16:00] producing a video. Then if you did it on your own, I think as long as the presentation is accurate and doesn't give clients or potential clients the wrong. Opinion of you or your team or your staff. Mm-hmm. You know, then you're in good territory.

So it's a tool, but it doesn't replace ethical behavior or discretion. Gotcha.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Well, Lance, I wanna thank you for being here today. Please.

Where You Can Find Our Guest!

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Where can people find you?

Lance Kennedy: You can find me@lancekennedy.com. It's our firm's website. You can also find me on LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook. Excellent. Well, Lance,

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: again, thank you for being here.

Absolutely. Thank you.

See You In Two Weeks!

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Tech Savvy Lawyer Page podcast. Our next episode will be posted in about two weeks. If you have any ideas about a future episode, please contact me at Michael DJ at the Tech Savvy lawyer.page. Have a great day and happy [00:17:00] lawyering.

🎙️ Ep. 119: Steve Fretzin Reveals Essential Tech Tools Every Solo Lawyer Needs to Dominate The Competition!

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Our next guest is Steve Fretzin. Steve is a renowned business development coach and host of the "Be That Lawyer" podcast. He is dedicated to helping attorneys grow their practices through modern, client-focused strategies that eliminate the discomfort of traditional sales tactics. With decades of experience, Steve's mission is to equip lawyers with the tools they need to build sustainable practices, manage their time more effectively, and cultivate lasting client relationships.

In this conversation, Steve outlines the critical technology skills that can transform a solo practice from merely surviving to truly thriving, and many more.

Join Steve and me as we discuss the following three questions and more!

  1. As you counsel attorneys transitioning from large law firms to solo practice, what are the top three tech skills you believe a solo practitioner must develop to not just survive, but to truly excel and stand out from the competition?

  2. Many lawyers feel overwhelmed by the rapid pace of technological change. What are your top three strategies for attorneys who want to embrace technology but don't know where to start?

  3. Looking ahead, what are the top three emerging technologies, such as AI and automation, that are reshaping the legal industry? And what are the top three steps lawyers should take now to prepare for these changes, both to improve their own practices and to better serve their clients?

In our conversation, we cover the following:

[00:35] Steve's Current Tech Setup

[13:14] Top Tech Skills for Solo Practitioners

[19:49] Strategies for Embracing Technology

[26:04] Emerging Technologies in the Legal Industry and Preparing for Technological Changes

[33:40] Steve's Book and Podcast

Resources:

Connect with Steve:

Mentioned in the episode:

Hardware mentioned in the conversation:

Software & Cloud Services mentioned in the conversation:

Transcript

The Tech Savvy Lawyer Ep 119 Steve Fretzin, Final

[00:00:00]

Title Read

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Episode 119, Steve Fritz reveals essential tech tools. Every solo lawyer needs to dominate the competition.

Introduction

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: My next guest is Steve Fritz from Be That Lawyer. Steve shares three critical tech skills every solo practitioner must master to not just survive but soar about the competition from paperless workflows to AI powered content creation. Discover the technology strategies that separate thriving solo practices from struggling ones.

Plus, Steve reveals his game changing tech stack and why going 100% paperless transformed his business. All this and more. Enjoy.

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Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Have you been enjoying the Tech Savvy Laura Page podcast? Consider giving us a five star review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast feeds.

Welcoming Our Guest!

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Steve, I appreciate you being here.

Our Guest Current Tech Setup!

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: What is your current tech setup?

Steve Fritzen: Current tech [00:01:00] setup is, I've got a Mac computer and I've got an Apogee. Microphone for podcasting and also it, it helps me tune out my dog, who sleeps on the floor and snores all day. I was teaching a class, I teach classes for lawyers every Tuesday and my dog's just, just grinding and just snoring like a train.

And I didn't think they could hear it through my computer, through my Mac computer. And I go, can you guys hear that? They're like, oh yeah, we've been hearing him snore. For the last hour, and I was like, okay, so I gotta move to my great microphone, , which will drown it out a little bit. So, but I've got the, you know, multiple screens.

I got two screens, and I'm working off a matic for my CRM. I've got, oh, I am a hundred percent paperless. Okay. So I've got my remarkable two notepad. Oh. And, and I absolutely love it. You know, part of what I'm trying to emulate for my clients is Efficiency organization. My inbox, and I'm using a Gmail platform, but my inbox is always at a zero at the end of every day.

Like I'm really is pretty [00:02:00] highly organized, which is the only way I can function at this point.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Well, you've raised several questions for me. First, I gotta ask now, how new is your Mac? Does it have one of the famous M Chipps in it? Is it an old Intel?

Steve Fritzen: That is a great question. The Apple M1 chip, eight gigabyte, and I wanna say it's maybe two years old.

It's a 24 inch. M1. Okay. Yeah. So I just want something that's gonna start and work and I, you know, I like to have the fingerprint to get it going and not have to put in a password all the time. And it's a great computer. It's really given me no issues at all. And that's why I'm a big fan of Mac. Just because I really just, I mean, other than occasionally the, uh, the way they call it the wheel of death, which I don't really see anymore 'cause it's a newer Mac.

As long as I keep it, keep it empty, like I've got an external hard drive. So all of the videos and audios and I'm recording. Mm-hmm. Hundreds and hundreds of hours of stuff. Right. And I was putting it on my computer, not realizing, you know, how much I was filling it up until it told me, Steve, you're outta space.

I'm like, what? Now? Everything automatically goes right into [00:03:00] the, I set it up so that all of my recordings, everything goes right into the hard drive, which is massive. Like, I dunno, it's like two terabytes or something like that. So this Mac is pretty clean, so hold on. Is this a laptop or a desktop? It's a desktop.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Okay. Yeah. And so is it the Mac Studio or the Mac Mini?

Steve Fritzen: Ooh. That's a great question. I don't know. I think it's just a, a standard. I'll tell you, I'm pulling it up right now.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: So it's go your apple. It's what if you go on your menu bar Apple? Yeah. I, I

Steve Fritzen: pulled, I pulled that up. So it says it's an iMac. Oh, okay.

It's Apple. Apple M1. Okay. Eight gigabyte Mac os Ventura.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Okay.

Steve Fritzen: And yeah, so that's, any other details beyond that? I'm not sure. Cool.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: And what external hard drives are you using?

Steve Fritzen: Alright. I've got a silicon power SP armor that I'm using. I don't know where or how I picked it up, but I just found it in a box.

I'm like, this'll work. I had a Mac guy come over who helped me with it because I just, you know, I'm not as tech savvy on all the details of this stuff. I just don't wanna make a mistake. Like, [00:04:00] that's my biggest fear with, with anything is, you know, I, oh, I'll just erase a bunch of this stuff. I don't need it anyway.

And then it's connected on all my devices and I'm erasing it from all my devices. 'cause I didn't have a setting just right or something. So I freak out about that stuff. So I always bring in somebody to help me. And this was one of those situations where he's like, do you have an external hardware? I'm like, yeah, in this box.

I grabbed it and he's like, all right, let's set it up. And then he. Help me, you know, create it so that I'm not, I'm really keeping my computer pretty clean.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: What are you using for backup?

Steve Fritzen: Oh my God, I'm really a Dropbox guy, so I'm putting everything into Dropbox. So even the stuff that goes into the external hard drive, that's the depository for Zoom to dump things into, right?

And then I immediately move it. I create names and folders, and I put it all, I bring it over, I drive it over to my Dropbox. That way we can do editing and we have access to everything, and my assistant has accessed to everything on Dropbox. Yeah.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Are you backing up like the whole computer at all, or just the files?

Steve Fritzen: That's a great question. I'm pretty sure I have an iCloud going on as well on a regular basis, [00:05:00] but it's mostly files that are being brought up on the Dropbox. Is that a mistake? Should I be. Well, there's a concept

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: of a 3, 2, 1. For every computer, you should have two different locations and three total backups.

Okay, so some people say that Dropbox is or isn't an actual backup. I consider it to be a backup. So I do use Dropbox as one backup. The next backup I use is called Backblaze, that back up the entire computer. The third I use is my time machine, which also backs up the entire computer. The fourth that I use is Sonology, which actually houses my time machine hard drives.

So, but that can also serve as an additional backup for other larger files. That's where I store all of my older recordings, because I don't need them on the main computer. So having a 3, 2, 1 backup notice that the. Time machine is here on site and the back blaze and the Dropbox are both. In the cloud elsewhere.

Mm-hmm. So that's how I sort of cover things just to make sure that, [00:06:00] heavens forbid one of them goes down, I got another redundant backup somewhere else.

Steve Fritzen: Interesting.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: And then I think about Backblaze runs in the background. You have, you know, it's just continuously running and I don't have to worry about.

Losing stuff, unless of course the power goes down, then hopefully between the three of them I've got enough. One of the three actually caught it. Enough redundancy. But you know, to go really paranoid, you know, you were talking about the iMac that you have. I'm using a Mac studio for my main computer, for my day job and my night job, and that's got an, I put in an eight terabyte.

Hard drive in that. And I did that just recently 'cause I was filling up my Mac studio with an M1 chip that only had two terabytes and that was filling up too quickly. So I have that extra room. And then I also have a laptop that I travel with. So my MacBook, which has got an M four chip in it and. I think four terabytes of hard drive space serves as sort of an extra redundant backup.

'cause it has a copy of all of my files through Dropbox. So, you [00:07:00] know, being the lawyer, being really paranoid. I think I've got, I guess, five or six backups, which yeah, hopefully, heaven forbid I'll never need. But I'm curious, so. What do you use for a smartphone?

Steve Fritzen: This is an iPhone 14 Pro.

What other questions can I answer about that?

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: That pretty much just answers that hundred

Steve Fritzen: 28 gigabyte.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Yeah,

Steve Fritzen: and I mean, again, this is a phone where I've really had very few issues,

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: which is the best things, like you said about all Apple products. Yeah. I just,

Steve Fritzen: yeah, we have so many stressors in our lives.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Technology, they can be put at the top of the list if you mm-hmm. You don't have a good product or you don't have. Things configurated properly. So I really am trying to be very careful about what I buy and how I use it with the limited knowledge I have that right, I'm gonna be protected and, and things are backed up properly and that I'm not making mistakes.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: So, do you use an iPad or a tablet?

Steve Fritzen: I only use an iPad for reading apps and like YouTube and stuff like that. It's like more of a, like I had this, like, there was a time where I was [00:08:00] gonna use my iPad for like taking notes instead. Mm-hmm. But I couldn't, it didn't feel like paper and it just was very slippery and my handwringing is terrible and it just wasn't easy to use for that particular thing.

So that's why I got the remarkable two, which is like the greatest invention for. For me that I, I maybe since my smartphone came out, I mean, it's that important in my life. And then I just separate business from pleasure and like the iPad is really just a, it's a tool for enjoying media,

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: right? A media content device.

Yeah. Which I agree with you. I too have very poor penmanship. And what is it about the remarkable that you like, that you found yourself buying another device?

Steve Fritzen: Yeah. And it's not cheap, but it's like I always say, and I've gotten like dozens of people on it because mm-hmm. They're, I see they have notebooks of handwritten, multiple notebooks.

It's like, all right, so I want you to find somebody from a year ago, and how are you gonna do that in a minute? 30 seconds, you're not, you're gonna have to go and you're gonna have to start tooling through all these notebooks to [00:09:00] find your notes about something that happened with the front of your. So first of all, as I mentioned, it writes like paper.

It feels like paper when you're writing. Number two is I bought the pen with the eraser on the end. It's a virtual eraser. And so my hand, so I'll write the word. I'll write the word lovely. Okay. And the last three letters of that word are completely unreadable, legible, right. So I can just flip my pen around.

Erase it. Mm-hmm. Slow down. Right, right. Finish it out and it's set. So, I mean, just the ease of taking notes, erasing, and then rewriting. That's sort of like the standard that I need to have. And then the ability for it, it backs up to its own cloud. Right. And I back it up to Dropbox, right? So all these notes and all this stuff can be put into, and I've got a file on everyone.

I've got a file mm-hmm. On every client. I've got a file on every event I've done, I've got an event on just, I mean, I've got everything broken into categories. So I can either use the search tool at the top and I'll put in the word like, [00:10:00] like ai. And it'll, mm-hmm. That'll pull up all the folders where the AI is in there, or it might be where I've gotta pull up, my client's name is Stewart Johnson.

And I, I just type in Stewart, it pulls up it, and then I've got all of the notes about him. So right before a meeting, 15 minutes before a meeting. Mm-hmm. I'm totally prepared. Remembering that he's got three kids, two of them are twins, right? He loves the Cubs and he's gonna be out in my neighborhood in the next, you know, two weeks or whatever, whatever it might be.

Like. I'm gonna be in a really good position to pull up things quickly. You can take PDFs. So I'm in a national group locally called Provisor. If you're familiar with visors, but I run one of the larger groups in the Chicagoland area, and so like I have an agenda that I write up for the, for the meeting.

I put in A PDF, upload the PDF onto my remarkable two, and then I can write on top of it. So I've got an agenda to follow that's on the screen and then I'm writing on time. There's all kinds of ways to layer and things like that, but I don't really , use it for that. So for me, just get, I had. Just stacks of like post-it notes and stacks of like [00:11:00] files and everything was everywhere and I just needed to get organized.

And the remarkable two is kind of the final piece of the puzzle that solved. Solved my riddle of organization.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Well, before we get into the questions, I'm gonna share one little tech app suggestion. I use a program called who, Topo, H-O-U-D-D-A-H, which is sort of like a finder on steroids. Now, the next version of the Mac.

OS is supposed to have a better finder spotlight program, but I've been using this for years and I absolutely love it because it really helps me get into the granular of what I'm looking for. You know, a particular type of document, you know, A PDF, A word with a specific name created within a certain timeframe that has a particular word in it somewhere, and either buy it individually or get as part of a subscription app that I use called Setup, which gives you access to like over a hundred applications. Many, not all of them, but many of them that I use and I pay like 10 bucks a month which is not bad. No, but what's get into the questions.

Q?#1:  What are the top three tech skills you believe a solo practitioner must develop to not just survive, but to truly excel and stand out from the competition?

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Question number [00:12:00] one, as you counsel attorneys transitioning from large law firms to solo practice. What are the top three tech skills you believe a solo practitioner must develop to not just survive, but to truly excel and stand out from the competition? Yeah,

Steve Fritzen: that's a great question. And by the way, the transition of, because of technology and because of automation and virtual assistants and virtual.

You know, not having to have a very, I mean, the transition from big law, mid-market, anything into solo is so much easier than it's ever been, especially if you have a book of business and you're able to bring it with you and have that comfort of knowing you've got. Hundreds of thousands of dollars coming with you because that's gonna, you know, alleviate the stress of, and the financial burden of starting something from nothing.

But I think back in the day, you know, you'd have to have an office and an assistant and a phone, someone answer the phone mm-hmm. Signage and all this big money investment. And today it's like, Hey, just set up in your home. Put up a, you know, I think a, you know, an inexpensive, you know, Squarespace, whatever website.

I [00:13:00] even tell lawyers, you don't even really need a website. It, it's helpful. It's helpful, but when you're first starting off, the first six months, as long as you have a good LinkedIn page mm-hmm. That your website, I mean, for six months. So you can make some money. If you don't have any, just use your LinkedIn page.

That's where people are going 60% of the time anyway, before they would go to a website. So I would say number one is you have to understand, I mean. Figuring out like what you wanna do and how you wanna spend your time. Mm-hmm. And then what you want to delegate and what software automation, va, whatever it might be.

Most of the people that make have regrets when they mm-hmm. Go off on their own is to not hire a bookkeeper from day one. So that's not a tech. There are, I'm sure tech tools for that. You could probably help me with that. But, you know, just having someone for. You know, $500 a month that really just takes all the bookkeeping can set up your QuickBooks, can set up your profit and loss, set up everything you need, you know, how you invoice anything and everything around that.

The second thing is you need to figure out what your tech [00:14:00] stack's gonna be. What's your practice management Software's gonna be. Is it Cleo? Is it Practice Panther, smoke Ball. And then are there gonna be any add-ons to that, meaning CRM, Matic, you know, how are you going to, you know, keep track of your pipeline and things like that?

Most attorneys, when they're starting out, they just want to get a basic practice management system, and I think. You have to evaluate the top five and make a decision, obviously going to the, do you go to a legal tech show in Chicago every year? Oh, the a BA tech show? Yeah.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Yes. I presented last summer as a matter of fact.

Okay. Okay. But I've been going for the last five or six years. Yeah.

Steve Fritzen: And I go and I walk the floor and I see, mm-hmm. What's, it was a very AI heavy as no one support. Oh yeah. By. Oh yeah, I'm not sure. I'm a huge fan of the, the venue change this year to the big, what's it called? The McCormick? Yeah, McCormick Play because it, yeah, the McCormick play's just so massive and it just didn't feel as intimate as it had at the Hyatt in the past.

That's that they, I think they signed a long term contract, so can't turn back from that. But I think you want to evaluate all the different practice management softwares and just see, based on the type of practice you have, what are you looking to stay [00:15:00] solo? Are you looking to scale quickly? Which one is gonna best, what's their support like?

Right. How much time, how much help do you need? In the big two things, I think with, with new softwares, number one is. Who's helping with customization, right? Are you trying to figure it out? Like you're someone that I think Michael could probably figure out how to customize a software like on your own.

I'm not gonna do that. I need someone that I say, this is what I wanted to do these things and then I, there's things I don't know that I need you to tell me it probably should do. And I did that with Law Manx, for example. I'm not a lawyer, but I have Law Mads and I, I talk about it quite a bit and I've had, you know, the gang on my show a bunch of times and on my podcast and all that.

And ultimately. If I need someone to configure it and customize it for me and my needs, and then I need someone to train me on it. Right? And so if you need to. Those two things. You wanna find a practice management that's not only quality, but where they're gonna really help you set it up so that you're not figuring it out and wasting, you know, countless hours on it on your own.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: You know, I find it interesting is that a lot of the law practice [00:16:00] management programs, I shouldn't say a lot, but the law Pro practice management programs are starting to have their own conferences. CLE con's, been around for a while, file vin's doing it. I think my case is gonna do a virtual conference.

And the attendees I've noticed, uh, tend to be very enthusiastic about their product. You know, that they're using so much so that they're willing to spend, , the extra money to come out to wherever the conference may be and learn more and get really ingratiated into the product.

Steve Fritzen: Yeah, that's a pretty common effect that.

Technology. I mean, you went to the mm-hmm. Or you're going to the Apple, the Apple Conference here in Chicago you mentioned. Yeah. So like people that are passionate about software or, or a product like Apple, they're gonna go for it. D and there's a lot to learn it. I think it goes beyond just the product.

I think they want to network with other people who share a similar. Interest or that, you know, maybe in a similar size practice, things like that. So I think there's a lot of value in those conferences.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: But also the one thing that I like is you learn from others how they do things differently. Yeah. And that's sort of the purpose of this [00:17:00] podcast is so that other lawyers and legal professionals can learn how other lawyers are doing what they do, but maybe just a little bit differently.

And if they can pick up that one tip or trick that saves them time and money, all the better. So I think that was two. I gotta get one more outta

Steve Fritzen: uh, one more outta me. So we, all right. So Bookkeeper, I would say practice management software. And I would also say really consider like what platform you're on.

Is it Outlook, is it Gmail? Again, what's the scalability? What are they offering from a standpoint of an email base? Or it could be, you know, just the ease of use. For building it out, and I, I don't dive too deeply into that. I just know that you gotta kind of pick a, you got, it's like Apple or, or like a Mac or a pc.

Like you gotta pick a direction. I'm a Gmail similar to, to Apple. I'm a Apple guy and I'm a Gmail guy, and you put Outlook and PC in front of me. I'm not real interested in it.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Cool. Let's move on to our next question.

Q?#2:  What are our guest's top three strategies for attorneys who want to embrace technology but don't know where to start?

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Question number two. Many lawyers feel overwhelmed by the rapid pace of technology change.

What are [00:18:00] your top three strategies for attorneys who want to embrace technology but don't know where to start?

Steve Fritzen: The thing I work with attorneys on quite often is a, identifying the gaps in mm-hmm. Productivity and then trying to figure out what the automation, what the delegation might be, the software that's gonna help alleviate the challenge.

But ultimately it's about starting small. You know, it's not about making a $25,000 investment investment in technology as a, as a. As a new solo to try to, you know, go hard and heavy from day one with no experience and whatever. So I think anything that you can sort of test the waters a bit and start to get comfortable, and I'll give you an example.

This is, this is not completely technology based, but you know, with social media and LinkedIn, like I'm helping lawyers post on LinkedIn and, and they're very uncomfortable with it. They don't know what to post, they don't know what to do, where to start. And I go, well, let's just, let's just figure it out.

What are the top five things that people come to you [00:19:00] and say, Hey, this is my problem. Alright, insurance, defense, personal injury, m and a, whatever the year is. Like, what are the top five things that you see and deal with every day? Then maybe go to chat, GPT or some AI and say, Hey, these are the top five things.

Help me create five posts that are engaging and that. Look, look me up, you know? And do you have any questions for me for before creating these posts, give it some good prompts. And now you've got five posts. So you're posting one a week for five weeks. The whole exercise took you 30 minutes, maybe less, and just start small.

One post a week. So I think whether it's posting, whether it's software, whether it's automation, my main tip is gonna be start small, start slow, get yourself comfortable. 'cause one thing you know about lawyers, and I know about lawyers is proof and evidence. Win the day and when you can get. When I buy the remarkable two and I start using it and start small using it for something and realize this is, I'm in love with this.

This is easy to use, this is not rocket [00:20:00] science. This is right up my alley. I start getting bought into it and then I start researching it, right? And then I start looking at what other things can this thing do for me? And now, and I'm still probably only using. 30% of its capabilities, for example. But I think that's the main thing is, is starting small and, and thinking about like what are the medial mundane elements of your day.

That administrative focused or marketing focused and, and you wanna be out hustling for business, right? You, we want you investing your time, working with clients and finding new clients. That's what every new solo should be thinking about. And all the, the, the minutia of the day like. Full inbox and all kinds of junk that you're dealing with.

That's where we need to, to look into technology to try to eliminate a lot of those headaches.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: So say, I think we got to start small. Use AI to assist. Third,

Steve Fritzen: third one, I would say consider a VA to help you get things off. Off and running more quickly. I think people are waiting too long to, because it [00:21:00] used to be you'd have to, you'd hire a full-time receptionist or you'd have a full-time, and then it's like, okay, no, I can, I can have a part-time person.

It's still a lot of money for a US-based $50 an hour assistant or whatever it might be. Right. And now in the Philippines and South America and South Africa, you know, it's on the low end, five an hour on the higher end, maybe 20. Mm-hmm. But if you hire someone for five in 10 hours a week. And they're getting that off your plate right away.

You're coming up with a list of administrative marketing, technology based tasks, and they're helping you get a Clio set up, helping you get your Gmail set up a certain way and a signature line. All the things that you need to get going, that's all gonna help you focus on, on building and growing the business.

Ad #2: Consider Buying The Tech-Savvy Lawyer a Cup of Coffee ☕️ or Two ☕️☕️!

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Pardon the interruption. I hope you're enjoying the Tech Savvy Layer page podcast. As much as I enjoy making them consider buying us a cup of coffee or two to help toray some of the production costs, thanks and enjoy.

I think I've gotta add a caveat here 'cause I have a US-based [00:22:00] VA who is, you know, to be blunt, not cheap compared to say the overseas VAs.

The concern of course is data security. Yeah. And what kind of treaties. Do the countries have with one another Because there could be an issue of data retention, of security of them being the other governments, possibly trying to gain access for one reason or another. And you've gotta make sure that you know where your pipeline, of where your data is going, where it's being stored.

Is it secure? Is it double and secured at your end and their end and Barrant and. Make sure that you look at your terms of service before you start, especially dealing with VAs from other countries. Yeah. That being said, you can also give the VAs, you know, in other countries more mundane routine stuff that don't deal with client.

PII.

Steve Fritzen: Yeah, I mean, background checks, reference checks. There's also a number of VA companies right now. I'm not gonna give out specific names, but there's a dozen VA companies that will help find and secure and [00:23:00] background check and manage the people. And again, you could have someone, I had a, an assistant when I first started my business.

Back in 2005. Four five, and she embezzled for me for six months and oh, tens of thousands of dollars behind our back and IFI figured it out. And she ended up doing 11 months, 12 months in Cook County jail. But I had a recourse, meaning the law here locally in the Chicagoland area to take right, you know, the camera footage of her at ATMs and, and at Target.

You know how she was, you know, using my credit card and all that. If somebody's in the Philippines or someone's down in Mexico, yeah, I think that would be quite challenging to, to get that back. So I think the other point might be maybe limit what access, right. Someone like that is getting from day one.

Yeah. As a way to kind of make sure you're not getting too deep in it without the proper security.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Well, Steve, let's look at our last question.

Q?#3:  What are the top three emerging technologies like AI and automation, reshaping the legal industry, and what are the top three steps lawyers should take now to prepare for these changes, both to improve their own practices and to better serve their clients?

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Question number three. Looking ahead, what are the top three emerging technologies like AI and automation, reshaping the legal industry, and what are the top three steps [00:24:00] lawyers should take now to prepare for these changes, both to improve their own practices and to better serve their clients?

Steve Fritzen: Top three, emerging technology, I mean. Legal, generally speaking, has been a slow moving train. I mean, tech, legal tech has been around for a while. Right. And lawyers are still very slow to change. They're very slow to adapt. Yeah. So it's hard. It's, there's more technology flying at their faces than they can mm-hmm.

Handle. And I interviewed John Morgan of Morgan and Morgan on my podcast for number five mm-hmm. Hundred. Okay. And I asked him about AI and is he gonna jump in ahead of everybody else? And his, I, his point was, no, I'm gonna hang back. I'm gonna let everybody else go with the hype and get involved in it, engaged in it, and, and make mistakes in it.

And I'm gonna be waiting in the wings and when things get kind of settled mm-hmm. That there's proof and evidence again, that things are working in a certain way and benefiting people in a certain way, then you know, I'll feel comfortable to jump in and start working through that. So that's where I'm seeing a lot of lawyers [00:25:00] mindsets right now.

Is they're waiting and seeing where I'm stepping in. And we talked about this a little pre-show was Right, right. You know, I wanna use, and I wanna help my clients use AI on a number of levels. Number one is like chat GT, as I mentioned earlier, for social media posts, right. I use chat GT with significant improvements in prompts to help take the transcripts of my podcast of all these interviews with rainmakers from around the world.

Mm-hmm. And say, Hey, can we pull the best tips and ideas and secrets that we were able to. Pull out of these interviews and create a book, and the answer is 101 Top. Rainmaker Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. You know the book. So that was. In large part AI generated, so I can see lawyers who are thought leaders.

Mm-hmm. Um, really emerging with more content with books. Okay, yep. With audio, with now there's video creation. Like you, I've heard there's, I don't know what, maybe you know the, this one, but there's an AI where you can give it like a, a PowerPoint presentation and it turns it into a podcast. Right? Yeah.

Like, that's [00:26:00] so cool. Again, you know, I think things need to continue to be reviewed and edited. I've noticed that when you put things into Che GPT and you know that they're Che GD, because you, like I read one of my clients' posts or first time posting, and she sent it to me for edit, right? And I said, you know, you have nine N dashes in your small post.

And she's like, I didn't realize. I go, yeah. So let's pull those out because that's to some degree, uh. A chat GBT sort of giveaway. So I would say that's one is, is how we're using it for content creation.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Forgive the interruption. So I just started using notebook.ai to take my editorials that I come out with every Monday and turn it into a two person podcast episode discussing that.

And so if the busy professional who doesn't have time to read a blog post, they get to listen to a seven to 12 minute podcast automated talking about. The salient topics of that particular editorial.

Yeah.

And it's me having fun with it and I've been posting it on the podcast and I'm getting [00:27:00] some interesting feedback.

Steve Fritzen: Yeah. So I think that's one aspect of it. The second is, and, and again, you may get into specifics more than Me. Clearly AI is changing the game as it relates to the low level functions that associates and paralegals are doing. So, you know, a little bit concerned about their jobs. And my son's going off to college in the fall and I'm concerned like, all right, what are you getting into?

Is that job gonna exist in four years? Right? 'cause if you, if we had said, oh, I'm gonna become a coder, that job will never go away. I dunno about that. And so all of the eDiscovery and the document management and the letters, the order letters and all the different low level functions of things, of collecting data and, and putting out demand letters and all that stuff, that's all I think gonna be going away fairly soon.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Yeah. Wait, I think. There still need to be people who know how to do it. So whatever your son gets into, so for instance, if it's software co coding,

Steve Fritzen: yeah.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: People need to know how to do it because they need to be able to check and make sure that the code that the [00:28:00] AI is coming out with. Yeah, that the legal brief, that the AI is coming out with whatever analysis the AI is coming out with, that someone actually knows it's being done correctly.

Sometimes AI can't. So the job,

Steve Fritzen: but the job then is the AI being the AI coding expert that's gonna then run the ai that's gonna take the place of a thousand people that would be coding. So that job exists, right? So, and same thing with what I'm hearing again and again from people in legal is lawyers that.

Have an understanding of AI and how to leverage it for their firm, how to leverage it for their cases. Mm-hmm. Are gonna replace a lot of the people who don't know that, like the, the lawyers that are just doing the work aren't gonna be as valuable as the ones who can do the work. And by the way, also know how to drive the AI function

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: well.

This is a common conversation I have with a variety of attorneys. And what we've all come up with is that lawyers who do not know how to use AI will be left behind by those who do.

Steve Fritzen: Yeah. I mean, [00:29:00] that's what I'm hearing as well. And so again, you know, is it a concern for me? No. I mean, it's not a concern for me.

It's a concern for. The legal community, right. I think to some degree because like college grads are, are struggling to get jobs right now and that, I don't know that that's gonna be easier in the next year or two. There's a lot of the jobs slowly disappear and even first year, like what's a first year law student gonna work on?

It used to be certain things that are now gonna be done by ai. So now how do we elevate them, you know, faster to learn the law and work on trial stuff and work on maybe second, third, fourth year stuff the first year. That might be interesting. So that's number two. And then number three. Is, I think it's, it's around the software, the legal tech that's coming out that's really helping people better manage relationships.

For example, Matics, they've got, mm-hmm. You know, AI and not, not ai. They've got legal tech capabilities where a lot of my clients struggle with how do I keep in touch with my clients? How do I keep in touch with my network? How am I adding value for them? Right, and they're, they're doing it manually, [00:30:00] right?

Like, oh, I gotta find this person's name, and I gotta reach out to them and, and set up a meeting, a coffee. And so, like, I'm using Matic as an example where I've got all of my network, past clients, existing clients, networks, strategic partners, podcast guests, all these people into categories where I can just say, all right, I want, I've got an event coming up in two weeks.

I wanna send this group, this group, and this group all in e what looks like an individual email about this event. And that's all managed and it can all be automated. So that's the kind of stuff that I think. In, in LinkedIn and LinkedIn, automations continue to be developed. Mm-hmm. And how people are hoing the internet to find that one of their GC clients just got promoted to another position or role.

Right, right. And automatically creates the congratulations email and brings in the fact that they've got three kids and two are twins and all that jazz, and then they hit send or it sends automatically or whatever the approval process is. I mean, that's all happening soon. It's happening [00:31:00] now in some cases.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Excellent. Steve, I want to thank you for sharing all that. Please tell us where people can find you.

Where you can find out Guest!

Steve Fritzen: Yeah, so you can go to be that lawyer.com to find my website to learn more about what I do for lawyers. I'm really in the business development, coaching and training function and all the, you know, the side perks of, of technology and automation.

Right. Kind of like, you know, icing on the cake if you will, but I'm teaching sales free selling, which is, you know, every lawyer hates. I'm sure you hate sales and hates selling and being sold to. I'm right there with everybody. That's why I. Created a program and a process that's anti sales, and I'm all over LinkedIn.

I, I'm posting multiple times a day and I would love to, to connect with people on LinkedIn if they've got questions about, you know, whether it's business development and legal and tech, or whether it's, you know, anything. I'm happy to be a resource,

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: but wait, because I see it in the background, you've gotta do a pitch for your book.

Steve Fritzen: Oh, okay. Yeah. So be that lawyer. 101 Top Rainmaker Secrets to Growing a successful Law Practice. It's 55 star reviews on Amazon. It's 101 rainmakers that I've [00:32:00] interviewed. All of their top secrets and best practices, how to live the best lawyer's life. Build a practice you can be proud of. Marketing. It covers like seven major areas that lawyers need to know in order to, to build a practice.

They can be really happy whether you're at a big firm or you're a solo. This book is, is the one to, to get. And I wish I could tell you I wrote it, but I used ai. The interviews were, was the writing is in the interviews I conducted. Right, right. But I just love that I was able to, to work with AI to create such an amazing tool.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Alright, so that being said, I think there's one more thing you need to share with the audience.

Steve Fritzen: Okay.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Your podcast,

Steve Fritzen: podcast also by the name be That Lawyer, 510 episodes, and it's really everything lawyers need to know about how to be that lawyer, confident, organized, in a skilled rainmaker. So I'm bringing on rainmakers.

Top legal experts in areas. You know, Michael, if we, if we don't get it, keep it quite as nerdy as I think you like to be about Apple. Like someone that can talk about what the top five [00:33:00] best legal tech tools are, the newest tech tools. Like that kind of information that's in the moment is super helpful to my audience.

So we'll have to talk about that once we get off. But the idea is that it's really a podcast that, that covers a lot of ground for, for everyone in law that is interested in growth. If you're, if you just want to crank out billable hours. Not the show for you, right? If you have ambitions for more in your life to live the best lawyer's life and free wealth for your family and have real satisfaction in a career, this is the show.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Excellent. I'll be sure to have all that in the show notes and more. Steve, thanks again. Thank you, Michael.

See You in Two Weeks!

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Tech Savvy Lawyer Page podcast. Our next episode will be posted in about two weeks. If you have any ideas about a future episode, please contact me at Michael DJ at the Tech Savvy Lawyer page.

Have a great day and happy [00:34:00] Lawyering.

🎙️ Ep. 107: AI Demand Pro Co-Founder Travis Easton on Fast, Effective Settlement Drafting!

/ The Tech-Savvy Lawyer.Page/

My next guest is Travis Easton, Co-Managing Partner of Easton & Easton LLP and CEO of AI Demand Pro, Inc. We discusses how AI is transforming legal workflows. Travis outlines three benefits of AI: boosting efficiency, revenue, and work quality. He also explores real-world uses of ChatGPT and Claude for tasks like drafting emails while stressing data privacy and accuracy. Furthermore, Travis warns of pitfalls like AI hallucinations and over-reliance, underscoring that lawyers must always review and finalize AI-assisted work to ensure integrity.

All this and more!

Enjoy!

Join Travis and me as we discuss the following three questions and more!

  1. What are your top three AI strategies for enhancing daily legal tasks, and how can lawyers integrate them seamlessly?

  2. How does AI Demand Pro leverage AI to streamline legal processes more effectively than traditional methods, and what are the key benefits of this approach?

  3. What are the top three potential pitfalls or red flags that users of AI tools like AI Demand Pro should be aware of to ensure responsible and effective use?

In our conversation, we cover the following:

[00:56] Travis's Tech Setup

[06:29] AI Strategies for Enhancing Legal Tasks

[11:55] Real-Time Examples of AI Use in Legal Practice

[14:54] Potential Pitfalls of AI Tools in Legal Practice

[20:14] Ensuring Responsible and Effective AI Use

[22:33] Contact Information

Resources:

Connect with Travis:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/travis-easton

Website: demandpro.ai/

Email: mailto: travis@demandpro.ai

Software & Cloud Services mentioned in the conversation:

  • AI Demand Pro: https://www.demandpro.ai

  • Apple iPad: https://www.apple.com/ipad/

  • Apple iPhone: https://www.apple.com/iphone/

  • Apple Keyboard: https://www.apple.com/keyboards/

  • Apple MacBook Air: https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/

  • Apple Pencil: https://www.apple.com/apple-pencil/

  • Apple TV: https://www.apple.com/tv/

  • CasePeer CRM: https://www.casepeer.com

  • ChatGPT: https://chat.openai.com

  • Claude AI: https://claude.ai

  • DocReviewPad: https://www.litsoftware.com/docreviewpad

  • ExhibitsPad: https://www.litsoftware.com/exhibitspad

  • LIT Software Suite: https://www.litsoftware.com

  • Microsoft Word: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/word

  • TimelinePad: https://www.litsoftware.com/timelinepad

  • TranscriptPad: https://www.litsoftware.com/transcriptpad

  • TrialPad: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/trialpad-trial-presentation/id1319316401

  • WordPerfect: https://www.wordperfect.com 

Transcript

[00:00:00]

Introduction

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Episode 107. AI Demand pro. Travis Easton on fast, effective settlement drafting.

Our next guest is Travis Easton personal injury journey and co-founder of AI Demand Pro. Travis shares with us his groundbreaking insights on leveraging AI for settlement demands, essential legal tech tools and practical strategies that transform law firm efficiency. We discuss this and much more.

Enjoy.

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Introducing Our Guest!

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Travis, welcome to the podcast.

Travis Easton: Thanks, Michael. Nice to be here. Appreciate it.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: I appreciate you being here. And to get things started, please tell us what your current tech setup is.

Our Guest's Tech Setup!

Travis Easton: Yeah, so we're a personal injury law firm here, and so [00:01:00] we've been with Case Peer, which is a CRM that we actually were one of their initial customers of, I think seven, eight years ago.

So that's what we used to kind of run our law firm, and it's been great. And then we use AI Demand Pro to write mm-hmm. Settlement. Mm-hmm. Cool. They've been awesome that, and we're gonna talk a little bit more about that since we're one of the founders of that. So a company called Alert, which helps us with, it's not really necessarily tech, but that's what brings in a lot of our leads and things like that.

Cool. So we can

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: get more cases. Well, tell us about your hardware. What kind of computers are you using today? What's on your desk there?

Travis Easton: We're Apple people.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Okay. Oh, you know Max. Excellent. Do you know what you're using? A Mac Mini. A Mac Studio. I have a, I have a

Travis Easton: MacBook Air. I just got the new MacBook Air that came out this year.

So

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Nice.

Travis Easton: We usually upgrade every couple years. Me and my brother are pretty attuned to all the new Mac products that come out every year.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Excellent. And do you have any other devices, like for instance, with your smartphone,

Travis Easton: iPhone,

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: and do you keep up to date on that?

Travis Easton: I'm a part of the yearly renewal program, [00:02:00] yes.

So, yep. Every year. Same here, A new iPhone.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Same here. It's interesting, I was at the A BA tech show recently and they talked about how only 6% of law firms use Apple computers, which seems a little bit weird to me, but other hand here I am listening to you. It's like we're an Apple computer office.

Travis Easton: Yeah, no, I think we are one of the rare ones.

I would say there's more and more that are switching over. But when we did initially make the switch over a number of years ago, the biggest thing was my dad who had started our law firm, was still on Word perfect. And so having, I don't, you know, I wasn't at the firm at that time. I think I was still in college, but having to go from word perfect to word.

That there was some transformation conversion process and it was pretty terrible. So I think that was the hardest part when they, they switched over from PCs to Max. But since then it's been great.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: I think a lot of the older attorneys, they had macros already built forward. Perfect. And they didn't wanna reinvent the wheel.

Travis Easton: Yeah.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: And so, well, I mean, I think

Travis Easton: when my dad started, it was a [00:03:00] typewriter, to be honest. So I, I know it was for sure. But I'm saying even when we started our firm and kind of went out on his own, we definitely had a typewriter in the office. So that's just, it's pretty crazy to think how far we've come.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: I tell everybody that the best class I took in high school typing.

Travis Easton: Yeah,

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: because I've gotten, be able to get so much done because I can type.

Travis Easton: Makes a huge difference. That's for sure.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Are there any other tech devices that you use that help you in your day-to-day work?

Travis Easton: Yeah. I mean, it's kind of related, but Apple TVs right? For demonstrations. Yeah. Things like that. When I'm, when I'm giving demos or have a group setting and we want to mm-hmm.

Present something that's kind of how we use it. We use an Apple TV and flash it up onto the computer. iPads are also very big as well. We're a trial attorney firm. Mm-hmm. And so we use some technology that, there's an app called Trial Pad and we've utilized that at trial and it's great with iPads and just kind of as far as your exhibits and everything you wanna present.

And so just makes your life a lot easier in that regard.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: So you know Brett Bernie, right?

Travis Easton: I don't know Brett, to be honest.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: You need to talk to Brett [00:04:00] Bernie. Who does in the news podcast with Jeff Richardson. They are all in on. That software package, and I know Brett, and someone from Lit Software came and did a presentation or two at the a BA tech show this year, so I know how well regarded that product is. Do you use an Apple pencil to help you with that or is it all,

Travis Easton: I mean, sometimes my brother, to be honest, is better with the Apple pencil.

I'm mm-hmm. I'm usually a finger type guide, but I know you can use it with that as well. But yeah, I'm usually, I'm not as adept with the Apple Pencil.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Using an Apple keyboard?

Travis Easton: I have, yeah. It depends on what, on the task I'm doing, but yeah, for things like trial padd, I'll usually throw the keyboard on there.

Cool.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: How do you like that in comparison when you're using your Mac Air versus your, your iPad?

Travis Easton: I almost always use a computer for things. You can't use the trial, at least the last time we used it a little bit ago, it was just an iPad app you couldn't do it on. Mm-hmm. I don't know if they have plans to change that at any point, but anything else I'm doing, I try to always use a computer.

I'm just more familiar with that for things like typing and stuff like that.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Well, [00:05:00] actually, let me rephrase the question a little bit. How do you like using the Mac error versus the iPad? In the sense of typing and data input

Travis Easton: I'm much quicker on the computer, on the Mac and book error. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I'm much more familiar with that and for what I do. Mm-hmm. The things I do on a daily basis, the computer is much quicker and better.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: I tried shifting over to the iPad a little more and it's just not the same. Yeah. I want the power of a computer or I'm multitask a little bit more and I just feel a bit naked when I'm trying to use the iPad.

Travis Easton: The computer, it just works a lot better.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Same here. Well, let's get into the questions.

Question #1:  What are Travis' top three AI strategies for enhancing day-to-day legal tasks? How can lawyers integrate them seamlessly into their workflow?

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Question number one, what are your top three AI strategies for enhancing day-to-day legal tasks? How can lawyers integrate them seamlessly into their workflow?

Travis Easton: Alright, well let's get into it. So to me, what, as I kind of thought about this and have pondered it, I think that the way that AI should be looked at and utilized in the legal field can help in kind of three ways. One, you wanna make life easier. Two, you want to see if you [00:06:00] can utilize it to increase revenue.

And three, you want to use it to improve your work product. Right? To me, as a lawyer. If you can have an AI product that can capture all three of those, or at least some of 'em. Mm-hmm. And I think it's a winner. And that's something that should definitely be looked at and explored to see how you can utilize it and put it into your practice.

So going to the first one, right? How do you make life easier? And like I mentioned earlier, we've created an a company called AI Demand Pro. Mm-hmm. That's why the main that we utilize in our practice right now that relates to ai. So I am gonna reference that from time to time throughout these things.

Absolutely. Sure. So forgive me if I kind of talk about it quite a bit, but that's my best example of how I can kind of explain these things to you. So our firm is a personal injury law firm. We've been around for 30 plus years. My dad and three brothers and I work together here. We have, I think, seven associates now that work for us.

With us and they're great. And then we have a demand writing department. And so the [00:07:00] way that our firm is made up is, you know, in a personal injury case, you sign up the client, they go and do their medical treatment, and then from there you gather all the documents, you gather the photographs, you gather all the data, and you would have your demand writing department summarize all of that and put it together in what is called the demand package.

Once that is ready, then it goes to the attorney's desk. He reviews it, edits it, makes it better, and then talks it over with the client, and then when it's ready, it goes out the door and you send that to the insurance company. And that's kind of the lifeblood of a personal injury law firm. Or at least for the majority of 'em, some just go straight to litigation.

But the majority, this is kind of the crucial first step. The insurance company responds and accepts your offer, or you enter into negotiations and you're able to, you know, resolve it and settle the case is done. If you're not able to, that's when you would then file the lawsuit and go into what we refer to as litigation, right?

What we've been able to do in our practice is create this company called AI Demand that we basically built in-house for our firm, and it takes all of those [00:08:00] components. We put it into our software, and then the AI basically writes a settlement demand. In less than 30 minutes. So it's taking what would've taken hours to days for that demand, right?

Or an attorney and turns it into a 30 minute to a couple hour process, depending on, you know, the size of the demand. And so when you have that in mind, right, when we talk about this first one, making it easier. My sister is our head demand writer and has been leading that department for the past 15 years.

It's amazing that she stuck with that job because it's a very tedious, it's a very boring job. You're literally just summarizing medical records and typing them into a computer all day, and so it was our highest turnover position at our firm. It's usually college graduates, and then they try for a little bit, and then they're like, I want to go do something else, and so it was just a tough position to keep fill.

So what has happened since we've installed this program and created this, you know, AI Demand Pro within our business is not a single [00:09:00] demand writer has left because the process is so much easier, it's so much more rewarding for the demand writers. And so it took it from them having to summarize hundreds to thousands of medical pages on each case down to now they are reviewing the output, they are reviewing the document.

They're just cross referencing, checking it. And so it just has made their life much more enjoyable. And so I think when you're looking at an AI product, whether it's for discovery, whether it's, you know, for depositions, what, there's so many different products out there, those are kind of the ones that really touch home to personal injury.

You want to look for a product that can make your life easier, right? Mm-hmm. Make it, you don't have to do as much, because I think that's one of the beautiful things of machine learning. Right?

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Well, I think one thing that you keep. Saying that I really wanna emphasize to the listeners that you do have to review your work

Travis Easton: a hundred

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: percent and make sure that you don't make any mistakes.

And you know, quite honestly in our conversation here, you've sort of just automatically bled into question number two. You know, how [00:10:00] does AI de demand pro leverage ai, streamline legal processes more effectively than traditional methods? And what are the key benefits of this approach? I think you answered that beautifully.

That being said, I'm gonna take it back a step. Yep. Going back to question number one, can you give us any examples of how you do use ai? I mean like actual real time examples in the sense of, you know, particular product to do x, Y to Z.

Travis Easton: I guess regarding your question, you know, I mean, you mean apart from like AI Demand Pro or something like that?

That,

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know if you had any other examples or is your Bailey with AI really focused on AI demand Pro.

Travis Easton: The majority of it is I will use chat GBT or Quad if I have a specific question or if I have a specific task, I'll use it for email. Sometimes I'll use them for those things.

But the majority of our focus has been mm-hmm. Developing this and on utilizing this AI because it's so encompassing within the personal injury law firm. Right. And the other thing that, you know, we can reference this later when we talk about the pitfalls, [00:11:00] but you have to be very careful. Not only, like you said, to review your work, but before you upload any sensitive data, right, that in return have like medical records or things should not be uploading anything like that just into Chad gbt, right?

That's on the internet, right? What we've been able to do is safeguard to set up so many privacy blockades and just things like that within our site when we developed AI Demand Pro so that you can take those medical records and upload them and they're still HIPAA compliant, they're still safe ever. All of your data is double encrypted, and so for that reason, I, to be honest, I am very cautious utilizing AI for anything that.

Would, I would deem clients sensitive, or that should not just be uploaded to an nor ordinary site like chat, GBT or Claude.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Well, could you give us an example of how you might use one of those two AI to help you write an email? For what purpose might you do that?

Travis Easton: Yeah, so what I would usually do [00:12:00] is I would take the reply, the response from the person, you know?

Mm-hmm. If it's, if I'm responding to someone, I might take the response, put it in there, and then. Either put a little thing, like a little response of what I'm thinking I want it to be. Mm-hmm. Or I would give it a prompt, right? Like, Hey, I'm looking to respond in this way to this email. Could you drop to, for me, I think the, one of the best ways is that you, it just saves you so much time.

And to be honest, brain power. Right? And having to really focus in, because we only have so much brain power, we can right muster up throughout the day. And so if you can unload some of that off onto the AI model. I think it helps tremendously. And so basically you can get the gist and the tone of what you're trying to say and put it in there, and then it can spit out its first version and then you can either, you know, give it some more prompting and tweak it further from there.

Or you can just take it and then you edit it and finish it up and make sure it's the tone and the work, you know, the verbiage that you want.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: So I'm assuming that you take out any PII from the response email [00:13:00] that you get before you pop it into

Travis Easton: Yes.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Claude or chat bt. Yeah, yeah,

Travis Easton: yeah. No personal information or anything like that.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Yep.

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and. I've received emails from a handful of parties over the years where quite honestly, , their communication may not have made sense or wasn't very clear.

And I will copy that. I will take out the p if there's any pi, I'm say, can, can you one tell me what is this person trying to convey to me? And two, draft an appropriate response. And it saves me some brain power there. 'cause sometimes. You get from certain parties, emails that really aren't clear, and that's me being polite.

Yes.

Travis Easton: A hundred percent.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Well, let's get into our last question.

Q?#3:  What are the top three potential pitfalls or red flags that users of AI tools like AI Demand Pro should be aware of to ensure responsible and effective use?

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: What are the top three potential pitfalls or red flags that users of AI tools like AI Demand Pro should be aware of to ensure responsible and effective [00:14:00] use?

Travis Easton: Yeah, so there's several. We've kind of referenced a couple of up to date. So the first one I wanted to talk about was, no AI company should be using the data that you are feeding it to learn from it.

So that should be the red flag when anybody is looking to sign up, you know, for an AI service mm-hmm. Or an AI connect. One of the questions you should be asking is, do, are you using my data to train your AI model? The biggest thing there is the privacy, right? If you know, if they are using their data. To train their AI model, and let's say they put in something about Joe fracturing his leg.

Then what happens is now that LLLM model will have that data that Joe fractured his leg actually baked into it. And so you're just giving up that privacy of that client or that person of whatever you fed into it and it's going into the system and now it's there forever. I think first thing is just make sure that no one is using your data to train their model off of first and foremost.[00:15:00]

Yeah. Did you have a question?

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Well, so like I'm looking at your website and I see, you know, there's a clear chart here that says HIPAA compliant, which I'm presuming is in part, you know, not training off of the data that you put into it. Correct. Is there anything that you can think of that the listeners should be aware of and looking for when they review a site like AI Demand Pro?

Like what key? Bits should they be seeing that says this is going to be something that is not gonna be learned from.

Travis Easton: I don't think anybody is necessarily gonna say that specific thing on the website. When you're in a demo. When you're in a conversation. Mm-hmm. Looking to use it. Or maybe the frequently asked questions.

That is when you would want to bring it up. The HIPAA compliance, of course, is, that's kind of a separate topic. That just means that your medical data is safe and secure and, and being safeguarded according to the HIPAA compliance rules. But whether they're using it, it could be unrelated to medical data, right?

And so, right. You just wanna make sure they're not utilizing your [00:16:00] data. To train their AI model. And so I would just make sure you're asking that question.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: So the reason why I asked you specifically about HIPAA was because going through your site, and I've seen others and I don't, products and companies like yourself say, Hey, we're not gonna learn from your data, or The AI we use is not gonna learn.

Travis Easton: We probably should. We should probably put that on there, but I think it's because most people don't even know to ask that,

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: which quite frankly, don't You think that kind of violates, was it model Rule one, common eight, that they'd be reasonably up to date on the technology that they use? Probably, yeah. I mean,

Travis Easton: yeah.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: I mean,

Travis Easton: they should, right? They should. But such a new frontier. I mean, if you go to any of these conferences, everything is ai. It seems like a quarter of the talks and the, the speeches are on AI or something related to it. Right. Everybody is just trying to get a grasp around it as best they can. But yeah, I think the common lawyer still is.

Very uneducated regarding these things.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: The problem is they [00:17:00] need to be better educated because the excuse of like the attorney outta the Southern District of New York of using Chachi BT to help draft his response brief without checking it. Yeah. And then, hey, the judge is like, are you sure these legit, these cases?

And he goes back and asks Chachi, BT, are these legit? Of course Chechen, he says, of course they're legit. Why would I not tell you the truth?

Travis Easton: Yeah.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: So that was one.

Travis Easton: So that, so your, your great example there brings us to hallucinations, which is what happened in that case, right? Right. And so you need to be aware of hallucinations and so going out and asking Chad, GBT, Claude, any of these things, you are at significant peril of it hallucinating.

And so when we built AI Demand Pro, we have done as much work as we possibly can to make sure that we are not hallucinating. I'm not the engineer behind it, right? When we built this, but the way I explain it to people that probably aren't the most tech-minded either, is we have built a, what I call a closed.

[00:18:00] System. Right? And so we are not going out into the internet when the medical records say, this person's gonna get a back surgery, right? And saying, Hey, WebMD, can you tell us what you know about the back surgery? And that's where people get into trouble when they go into chat GBT, and they ask it things related to legal questions.

It's going out to the internet and gathering all of that information and stuff. And sometimes it's gonna be accurate and sometimes it won't be. And sometimes it's gonna what we call a hallucinate, just make things up. That's very scary if you are an attorney, and it goes back to your earlier about always double checking the work and not double checking it with chat GBT when you get called out on it.

Right? And so our system is closed. It does not go out and find any of that information, and it only has. We have put in there, which are things like the California vehicle codes and the other state vehicle code sections and things like that, that we need it to just gather the information if it pertains to that specific case.

Right. And so I would just say you need to always be aware of hallucinations [00:19:00] and ask them, you know, does your product hallucinate and things like that, and you know, try to get an understanding of how often is it hallucinating. And so I would say that's pitfall number two that people need to watch out for a hundred percent.

Did you have any questions regarding that, Michael?

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Nope. I think he did a great job explaining that. So I'm gonna say number three.

Travis Easton: Yeah, so I would just say that, to be honest, it kind of goes back to what we talked about earlier. Avoid outsourcing your legal responsibilities to AI companies in their totality, right.

AI is meant as a tool to make it more efficient. Yeah, to make it faster and potentially cheaper. But you are the lawyer, you the listener. If you are a lawyer, you are the lawyer and you are ultimately responsible for your legal work product that you put out on behalf of your client. Whether that's legal research.

Whether that's, in this case, writing settlement demands. And so there are models out there where you send in your demand documents, the company puts it together and they put it all together [00:20:00] and then they send it back. And unfortunately, I know law firms that just rubber stamped that, right? Review it and send it out as the work product.

And in some cases it might be. Totally satisfactory, but what if they missed something? What if it was wrong? And so right. We were aware of some things like that, and ultimately that just wasn't the best model that we saw. And so that was one of the reasons why we created AI Demand Pro was just so that we're getting the demand created so quickly that we then can take that time in-house to have our demand writing department that we still have.

Right to review, edit it, right. Make it better if it needs to be. And then it still goes to the attorney who puts his finishing touches on it. Right. Right. And because I like to think that every attorney kind of has their own little style, right? Yeah. And so what we've done is we've taken the tedious and longest part of it, of really reviewing those medical records and shortened it down to 15 to 30 minutes so that you can take the time to review that, make it better, and put your finishing touches on it.

Instead of that process [00:21:00] taking hours and days, it's now going out in an hour or so. And it just make everything so much more efficient. And so I just think that with every AI product out there, they're just getting better and better, which is great and will continue to get better and better as they're fine tuned and things like that.

But we're still the lawyers. We still have the obligation to review everything, and so I would just be caution everybody before you're just rubber stamping something that AI produced. Make sure you're reviewing it and you are happy and you feel satisfactory with the work product that's put together for you.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Excellent, Travis, I really appreciate you sharing all that.

Where You Can Find Our Guest!

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Tell us where can people find you?

Travis Easton: Yeah, so our website is Demand pro.ai. And then my email isTravis@demandpro.ai. And feel free to reach out with any questions or inquiries or any, anything I can do to help.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Excellent. I'll be sure to have that in the show notes and more.

And Travis, again, I want to thank you for being a guest today.

Travis Easton: Thanks, Michael, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Thanks.

See You in Two Weeks!

Michael D.J. Eisenberg: Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Tech Savvy Lawyer Page podcast. Our [00:22:00] next episode will be posted in about two weeks. If you have any ideas about a future episode, please contact me at Michael DJ at the Tech Savvy Lawyer page.

Have a great day and happy Lauren.